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"It's the Bondage Version of Harry Potter": How is 50 Shades of Grey Affecting Your Sex Life? (Updated)

Categories: Books, Sex

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Now that 50 Shades of Grey has (apparently) become the only work of erotica produced in the entire world since D.H. Lawrence banged out Lady Chatterley's Lover, it's only fitting that it's become the Lady Chatterley of the twenty-first century.

Well, OK, it and its two sequels made their way into bookstores without the benefit of an obscenity trial, and they've sold a combined 10 million copies in six weeks, but libraries across the country (specifically Fond du Lac, Wisconsin; Gwinnet County, Georgia and Brevard County, Florida) have banned the books from their shelves, not because of lack of literary merit, but because they're just too damned dirty. Goodness gracious! Do they know what other kinds of filth are lurking on those shelves?

Here in St. Louis, the libraries are full of copies of 50 Shades of Grey. The St. Louis County Library has 249, but the waiting list to get at them is 1350 names long. The list is shorter at the Municipal Library Consortium, a mere 253, and the St. Louis Public Library allegedly has three copies available for checkout.

But that doesn't really address the principle behind book banning, that the books will give people ideas and then they will act on them!

There are no records of how Lady Chatterley affected sexual behavior among its early readers, if there was an uptick in upper-class women making love with their gamekeepers in open fields. In any case, Lady Chatterley and Mellors only needed grass and flowers and mud. But we live in a new world now, with a wealth of sex toys. And since Christian Grey, the hero of 50 Shades of Grey, is a billionaire, he has quite a lot.

The New Yorker's Page-Turner blog reports that Babeland, a sex toy store in SoHo, offered a class for people to learn how to perform some of the sex acts they read about. Sales of BDSM gear had increased 20 percent in recent months, since 50 Shades of Grey first became a thing, said the store's owner, and customers were looking for some guidance.

"A hundred or so women, four men, and one Chihuahua" crowded into the shop for a fifteen minute lecture on various toys and products akin to the ones that appeared in the book, some of which came in a variety of colors to coordinate with bedroom decor.

But those were New Yorkers, who like to believe themselves more forward-thinking and adventurous than those of us in the staid Midwest. Are St. Louisans getting more into bondage and S&M?

Well, they're not shopping at the local sex toy outlets. Neither Cheap TRX nor Pure Pleasure Adult Megacenter has seen a dramatic change in sales. At Patricia's (formerly TLC Priscilla's), manager Lindsey Ebert keeps a small display of the three 50 Shades books on the counter, which sometimes sparks interest in customers, but she finds that they're not showing up just because of what they read in the books. Except for one thing.

"The ben wa balls have gone crazy."

But at Hustler Hollywood, the local outpost of a fourteen-store chain (and also the RFT's Best Place to Buy Sex Toys two years running), the books have been a cash bonanza says Hollie Petillo, the chain's book buyer.

"People are coming in and bringing little lists!" she tells Daily RFT. "It's kind of like the bondage version of Harry Potter." Unlike the Harry Potter books, though, all the magical toys and accessories mentioned in the 50 Shades trilogy already exist and are conveniently for sale at Hustler Hollywood, a fact the store has capitalized on with prominent signage and sales displays.

Like Patricia's, Hustler Hollywood has been selling a lot of ben wa balls (in addition to sex play, they're also useful in Kegel exercises), but it's also been doing a brisk business in blindfolds, under-the-bed restraints (which can be tucked away when not in use) and grey neckties, re-purposed from the Naughty Schoolgirl costume.

Though St. Louisans were enthusiastic buyers of bondage gear even before the books came out (especially in comparison to other stores in the chain), Petillo says that those customers were the advanced group who already had some experience in tying each other up. 50 Shades is more like bondage for beginners. "The bondage themes are pretty vanilla," Petillo explains."It's a new crop of business."

Later, those customers may return for whips and riding crops. And they're happy!

"Kevin [Carter, the St. Louis store manager] told me that while he and one of the employees were putting together the sales display, they were talking about whether they would see any sales," Petillo recounts. "A customer overhead them and said that while he tried to read the book and couldn't get into it -- he said it was a bit of a chick thing -- his wife read it and confessed that she'd been interested in trying out some of the things in the book. He bought $200 in fetish items and $75 in toys and lube. Without the book, they never would have figured that out.

"The customer said, 'God bless that book!' So, in a way, it's been bringing couples together."

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87 comments
Lola Down
Lola Down

You'll love mysexlifewithlola if you liked this.

Dee S
Dee S

This book is AWFUL! The author needs to seriously invest in a THESAURUS! I swear to God, if I heard "Oh my" or "Crap" one more time, I was going to go mad! If you want a good read, get Megan Hart's "Stranger".. Save your money.. 

Doowop7965
Doowop7965

....What's old is new again..Blah, Blah, Blah.

Sourgrapesfl
Sourgrapesfl

Fifty Shades of Stupid

I just finished reading Fifty Shades of Grey and I have to say it was one of the worst books I have ever read.  I will not be reading the rest of the series, getting through that book was torture enough. 

Oh, Christian Grey. You are the (prehistoric) man mothers warn their daughters about and fathers hope their sons do not become. Selfish, manipulative, arrogant, sadistic, narcissistic, (I want to say women hater but...) you are incapable of caring for any being outside of yourself.   You are an opportunist, one who jumps at the chance to take advantage of the naive and inexperienced.  I do feel bad that you were taken advantage of and beaten as a young man, but please, your sob story does not excuse your behavior as a man. 

To anyone who thinks this is some kind of "housewife porn", what the fuck kind of house do you live in? This story is completely idiotic, and horribly written. I would hope a published author would have the mind to recognize repetition of descriptions throughout the book (I am referring to "ghost of a smile", "finding his release", "hooking (her) panties" and "down there"). I am certain there are more, but I am trying to forget this horror of a story as quickly as possible. Also, unless one is writing a book about a schizophrenic keep the voices in "her" head to one OR none. The idea of her "inner goddess",  "subconscious" and actual self with conflicting ideas (or ideals) regarding Mr. Grey is beyond rediculous.  

 I have heard some say that no one under 30 should read this book, I'm guessing, because it is too risqué. I beg to differ. No one over 30 should read this book because of the mind numbing monotony and yearning to shake he shit out of that girl and tell her to run for the hills.  IF the book was to fall into the hands of an early twenty-something, it provides a prime example of the behavior to steer clear of when searching for a healthy relationship and the tell tale signs of the type of bastard that should be avoided at ALL costs. 

Ericmccowan
Ericmccowan

We have a local company, Slumber Parties By Michele in Navarre Florida. AVOID HER AT ALL COST. She is a rip off and will not show up for your adult party.

Kayla Farrar
Kayla Farrar

I find it interesting that people want to discuss these things on a blog like this.  So shall we talk about such things, Robert?  You want to spew crap about The Legal Venue, but let's talk about how legal you are at FLOG at the VFW Hall in Richmond Heights?  You all want to keep every thing underground so your leaders can take advantage of young girls by photographing them and putting them in compromising positions and then threaten and badger them to keep their mouths shut.   

I moved out of St. Louis to Washington State, and let me tell you all, you all are a horrible representation of what the community is.  The ones that want to keep this hush hush, you have no idea the meaning behind Safe, Safe, and Consensual.  This life style is based on honor and trust, and not one of you have a clue what those words mean. Get real!  So the owner of the Legal Club is a Felon, get over it, people make mistakes.  

bythegraceofgodgoi
bythegraceofgodgoi

Robert, it sounds like you have a personal vendetta against an individual. Only adults are welcome at "said" club, and from my EXPERIENCE visiting on numerous occasions everyone is welcomed and treated with respect. The past of the people who run it is not important to me. My partner and I go to learn, socialize, and express our bdsm lifestyle,,,the past of another person is quite frankly none of my business and has no relevance to my experience there. I have never felt unsafe, all interactons I've witnessed are safe, sane and consentual. Your agenda of trying to crucify this indivdual and the club might be valid if you actually attended there to see how everything is conducted. Preach your hate if you must, but I will continue to be a patron there regardless. Just a word of advice,, those who live in glass houses would be better off not throwing stones:) NOW with that being said, I work at an adult store, and have seen an increase in sales ofthe things used in that book. I loved the series, and proudly inform my customers of the bdsm club and the education they provide to the community on how to enhance their relationship in a safe, sane and consentual manner. I feel more comfortable at a legitimate business with a crowd, then in a strangers basement. That's just common sense:)

SatansMaster
SatansMaster

I will say that since this light taste of BDSM has hit the St Louis Streets. Its not the toys the novices are buying and checking out. The last three months has brought a wave of new and curious folks to the First and only totally legal Play space and education center in Mo. After last weekend, our new guest tally rose to 127 brand new folks and 30 percent of those have also become full members.So for the rest of you curious Georges, please come on out to the Facility, check it out at www.clanofthebarbarians.com and Cheap Trx also vends there for all functions.  So learn , play and shop all in one stop.Thank you St Louis.

bound by ropes
bound by ropes

St. Louis has an active, yet volatile, kink community, include a legal BDSM club.  I hope that with the popularity of these books there will be a new generation of people enterring the community.  And with that some of the turmoil in the community will end. 

Robert
Robert

First, you have the wrong Robert. I know the one you are referring to and I am not him.

Second lets talk about the allowed membership to this clan, lets talk about the EX chiropractor that lost his license do to how was it stated? "inappropriate" sexual misconduct with patients?

How about the HIV positive person that I guess forgot to disclose he was positive and still played with people.... for all those new to this and reading all this for the first time. "Playing" with some usually mean s they are nude, they are beaten and most times to the point where they are VERY close to the person beating them. Playing with someone usually means (but not always) that there are bodily fluids exchanged on purpose but sometimes on accident.

How about the sex offender that is listed for behavior with a "14" year old, this wasn't some oh I was 18 she was 17 and mom got mad, this was a "14" year old.

And to the felon, good ole joe, well you would be absolutely right if this was a one shot deal, but alas it wasn't, this is a repeat offender. This person can not be trusted and here you are sucking up to him like... well just like.

There are plenty more if you want more info just ask.

I could care less what group you or anyone else belongs to or goes to, just get off your holier then thou bull. This facility is licensed for BDSM education and nothing more, the play and sex that goes on is against the law. in the state of MO. you CAN NOT give permission to be assaulted.

One thing I know, this will go away, this thread will die and no one will even care about the book or the facility or any other group in St. Louis again.

Go have your minutes of fame, the clock is ticking and time is almost up.

If I was new and wanted to go find out about this, it sure would not be the facility, not with the owner being who it is and not with the blind board it has. Sure some will, but they will leave and never go hack and forget the BDSM because of the experience.

LOL wow, just wow

These are just a few reasons how joe will destroy your group. he will get mad, he will take it out on you all, he always does.

Ozarkgirl
Ozarkgirl

Funny how I have never heard or seen anything stating FLOG is a legal venue, what I did get to witness during my one few visits at a Halloween event is that the cops responded to a guest that passed out(later to learn she was fine just over did it) and the cops didn't care. The bottom line is that the mass majority of the public is not ready to accept us kinky folks, what we do strikes to close to abuse and rape to them and many could lose their jobs/kids and homes if they were known to participate in this. What assinhat Joe did was to put Flog in the face of the public thereby making it a target for everyone that wished to attend so for several months I heard they did not open because of the viral filth he spewed. And as an aside yes everyone does have a past and folks can change, the funny part is that if you look at his record he didn't just make one mistake and then learn from it to be a better man .......No he continued to lie and cheat and steal, this to me shows a pattern I would not want in anyone that claims to be a leader or god forbid a mentor to anyone new in the community.

Robert
Robert

 I agree, basements are not the best place and I applaud you for standing up for your group. The person you follow is your biggest problem, his irrational behavior and his out right fantasy word he lives in should give you a clue. I am sorry you and the others do not see the poison he is spewing.

I wish the club well, not him

Tired of it all
Tired of it all

 Robert, actually the opposite it true.   The person you are referring to has always said that other legal venues are welcome and encouraged.   Heck he did all of the hard work to show it can be dune.  So when will your legal open safe sane  and alcohol free club be open? 

Robert
Robert

 Yeah well it's that "legal" bdsm club that caused all of the turmoil along with the sex offenders and the felon that owns it. What a joke "legal"

Kayla Farrar
Kayla Farrar

Ok what about the man who is in leadership or a mentor and protector who gets new young submissive females to pose naked for his camera then proposition for sex?  Isn't he the same person that collared a minor (a former disgruntle sub of his told a bunch of people this last year at FLOG after he got her pregnant and tried to force to her to have an abortion.)  This is the alternative to a man who you say lies cheats and steals.   I would rather have the man who lies cheats and steals in leadership than The Hubble Spacecraft.

getoveryourselves
getoveryourselves

 are you done now?  this has nothing to do with the original article.  You took a good series of books and how they are positively impacting the community, and turned it into an arm wrestling match.  Move on people, you can't argue with stupid.

bythegraceofgodgoi
bythegraceofgodgoi

 I follow no one.  The only irrational behavior that has been displayed to me is your own.  It's as if you think he's the Pied Piper leading a bunch of rats to their death. All of your inaccurate perceptions of The Facility are quite comical.  It's as if you think we all go to worship a fallible man.  This isn't a church with a charismatic preacher serving us blue koolaid.  It's simply what its name implies,  A Facility.  A place to play, to meet other people that are interested in similar things, and have a great time. 

I wish you the best in wherever you choose to express your lifestyle.  As for me, and many others, we will continue to enjoy all that the Facility has to offer.

Hopefully, people new to the lifestyle will see through the ignorance, and come check out the Facility for themselves.  It's a great place to learn from a variety of people in an environment that is welcoming and that is not intimidating. 

You can learn what the items in the book are and also how to use them safely.  There are even classes where you can make you own items.  It's truly an asset to this community of kinksters, and I am proud to call it home.

I hope you can move on, and let go of the hatred.Here is something from the past that you could learn something from.......

"I will permit no man to narrow and degrade my soul by making me hate him."  ~Booker T. Washington

Charles
Charles

But it's the CLUB you slam every time it's mentioned. SM had not been mentioned before you were slamming the club.  You slam the club and SM every time they are mentioned on any site.  I'm not sure what your vendetta is, but you're turning into that yappy dog barks just to hear his own noise.  Get a life.

Robert
Robert

 Not sure you are looking at all of the history, if we do not learn from the past, we are doomed to relive it. I am sorry, you have not studied the past. Joe may have forgotten me, but I have not forgotten him.

JanMikal
JanMikal

I went to the legal BDSM club in question last weekend. I had heard about it online, and I thought I would check it out. 

When I arrived, I was given a lengthy list of rules that attendees of the club must adhere to. They all seemed common-sense and reasonable; no alcohol, no extreme play, etc. I signed the agreement-to-follow sheet without hesitation.

I arrived at about 1am on Saturday night. I expected, true to stereotype, a dark place with the walls upholstered in black leather, with leather-clad people moving about, carrying whips and chains and riding crops. That's what's in the movies, right? I expected moaning in dark corners and submissives shaking in fear at being punished. I was wrong.

What I found was a bright, open space, full of friendly people who were willing and indeed eager to welcome, with open arms, any reasonable kink or fetish one could think of. When I say reasonable, I mean non-children, non-animal, non-send-you-to-the-ER kind of kinks. Unfortunately, I arrived too late to meet and get to know many of the 'regulars', but overall, I found them all intelligent and reasonable human beings, and had some VERY deep and involved conversations about the nature of BDSM, how to be safe and secure and above all, sane. Keep in mind - this was my FIRST TIME EVER at the club, and again, my FIRST TIME EVER meeting ANY of these people. I was welcomed like a brother that they hadn't seen in a long time, with handshakes and hugs, pats on the back and smiles.

As for the proprietor of the property...well, as I said, I arrived at about 1am. I LEFT at NOON the next day. I stayed there for ELEVEN HOURS. You know what we did? Talked. He told me a lot about his past, what he'd done, the good, bad and ugly. He admitted to me his past mistakes, and made no excuses. He admitted his wrongdoings, and TOOK RESPONSIBILITY for them. He never pulled the 'Devil made me do it' or 'I had no choice' cards. He told me, quite simply, "I fucked up, and I paid for it'. And, from what he told me, he did. I saw no dishonesty or untruth in the man. I think it takes someone secure in themselves and their environment to tell a PERFECT STRANGER, who he had met only hours before, about the somewhat sordid details of his past.

SatansMaster, I salute you. I like you as a person and a man, and, above all, I RESPECT you. I will return to this legal BDSM club. I feels safe to me, it feels like home.

Driverkitty@yahoo.com

SatansMaster
SatansMaster

 The turmoil was actually created by the illegal bdsm venues that should go and seek the proper documents. And yes it feels awesome to be able to relax and enjoy what you love without worrying about a raid or fear of being outed by the media for being in a illegal venue that serves liquor.

Tired of it all
Tired of it all

 O, Robert.   You can not help yourself can you.   Every opportunity to send people back underground into dirty basements and fake art houses.   .

Irony
Irony

Irony. Your a nut . /Irony

Robert
Robert

Interesting, not sure I have ever heard that story. Mine is fact and can be read on the states website, all of the ones I mentioned are as a matter of fact.

None the less, it's typical for this type to try and skew the facts or deflect blame. My facts are that this man and this group harbor known felons and that type. I am not sure what your beef with the flog event. Been there a couple times have not went back, just not my thing.

Love the lies and cheats.. again, those who lay down with dogs.....

Robert
Robert

In the face of overwhelming fact, the answer is "move along" this is the exact reason I did this. To show just how those of you that hide all of this are. You will go to any lengths to protect these people.

I am saddened for the community in St. Louis, book or not, you are what you are and the community needs to be aware of it. 

UKtransplant
UKtransplant

This did start out as a critique of the book so let me add my .02 worth, this book was a poor attempt at erotica by a woman that apparently had fantasies about the BDSM community but no real exposure except what she found online which is funny cause my homeland of England is very open and excepting and has a huge community not to mention several wheel respected clubs. If you just want a cute read with some semi steamy sex scenes thrown in then this book is for you however if you are looking for a book that is realistic about the Lifestyle then it's a fail.

Ozarkgirl
Ozarkgirl

Well gee thanks for knowing my life, but contrary to what you think I have seen his permit and attended the comical hearing he had with the city.....education was his promo, never did or has he disclosed what truly happens in his so called club.....the saddest part is that he has now tarnished the neighborhood and soiled what was once a great biker bar

Animl_lovr
Animl_lovr

guess you haven't seen the photo of the occupancy permit from the City that is on their website.  It says: BDSM.

Ozarkgirl
Ozarkgirl

Legal.........you folks crack me up, he has permits for education but in no way does he have permits for nudity and for someone to beat/hit someone with anything cause by Mo law that is assault and it's ILLEGAL. As with everything else he has done he has twisted and lie d to suit his own purpose and YES his patrons should worry about being raided since what happens their is NOT education unless fire play has changed especially for the special folks of the Clan and they do it with their clothes on?

Robert
Robert

 It must be so sad to have to fight that stigma that joe has brought to you.

joe got the building, he pulls the strings. Board or not, if he feels threatened you all are out on your ass, it's happened before. cup holder or board member matters not and you know it's true, if you don't then you know people that do, none of you are as invested as he is.

None of this is made up(except the COTB) the facts are out there. The "Irony" post is correct, you do allow sex offenders and felons there. The "can't be out" postings are correct, not everyone wanted to be in the light, joe forced that, even stated it on television

I just hope for your sake that I am wrong, but I am not. A leopard never changes his spots.

bythegraceofgodgoi
bythegraceofgodgoi

I have read all of your comments carefully, and have seen where you wish the club well, yet in another breath refer to it as tainted and refer to it as a joke that has caused turmoil.  You choose to hate one man,, one man that has informed you that he is not the sole leader of the club, that it is governed by a board, and are advising people that if you attend that you will be con'd to the point of bankruptcy. 

I hardly believe that new people that come to check out the facility for 20 bucks, will be bankrupted.  If you choose to have a membership, your financial risk is just as great as if you are joining a gym.  This is a legitimate business, and with having it legal, it holds more responsibility then an underground group. There are guidelines that they are held to just like any other licensed business. 

What issues you have with him, are between you two, but you have chose to blanket the Facility with them. 

You insult the intelligence of the people who choose to practice their lifestyle there.  People do not attend to evaluate the morality of others, they attend to fulfill there own desires.  They provide a play space, I use the play space to cultivate my D/s relationship.  Bottom line.  The Jim Jones reference was an attempt to give insight as to what the Facility is NOT since you have never experienced it first hand.  Your comments made it seem as if we are all blind followers of a mad man.  This is not a cult, this is simply a venue for people to use,,, not to use people.

I have expressed my experience in regards to The Facility.  Now, I am done.  Going to bed:)

I hope you continue to wish the Facility well, because a lot of people have benefited from it's existence. I'm a Mistress of many things, and self preservation is one of them, my back is guarded efficiently:) 

Robert
Robert

 Well said, I hope more are like you. It takes strong willed people such as you to break out of the mold. I did enjoy the Jim Jones reference as well, I remember watching the news when that happened. I find it funny that you reference that for the facility and how it may be run. I see that you have not read any of my "I wish the facility well" I do not wish him well. Have fun and watch your back

Robert
Robert

 Charles, Happily I have lived a long life and have seen this before. I will say it again, Good for your club and your community, although I do not frequent, I am sure it will be good. As for sm, he will show his, i am sure of it

Robert
Robert

 How well I know, Thank you for speaking up.

Sophie
Sophie

Still sad about my friends in hope ville and the other tent cities, who lost all their homes in April.  

It took them a long time to gather all those belogings that were bulldozed in a matter of hours.  

Sophie
Sophie

looks like only clan attend..and with the hatred for sm and all he has done in this community you will never get support in this community for you club.  you need money to run. and I myself will spread the word far and wide about the man and his mission to anyone who will listen.

Ultimately they are adults and must decide.  But I like them to have a good idea of what they are in for.

Sophie
Sophie

Wow I thought you had a capacity of 90 people total at any given time per your business license.  That is against the law.  to have that many people or are you just giving us the total of how many have joined your page on fet?

Sophie
Sophie

wow just do not leave any thing there, once you break ties. You will never get it back.  It is just their way.  They lock the doors and claim you have abandoned your things.  Then they claim it for their next club.  Just a word to the wise.  

Sophie
Sophie

Sure they do they break the law all the time. check out full nudity pics from pandemonium posted on fet.  I believe this is against the law.  Plus I do believe play is not allowed, Yet I see every one talking about play in their posts.  Not educations..... very interesting to see when you look at the business license.  Just a matter of time.  

Sophie
Sophie

Robert he thinks he is GOD almighty that is the ultimate joke,  You know satans master. go figure.......that takes balls

Sophie
Sophie

well give him a few more months Charles the real SM will come out yet again,.. It talkes about a year. 

Sophie
Sophie

Sure you did you hid it from everyone until we served our purpose or became wise to your lies, then you move to a new place gather new people and start a new place.  That is how you work.  

Robert
Robert

Mr Wraith,

I do not know you or anything about you, with that said my argument is based on past behavior. I am saying "if" he was a reformed person there would not be an issue at all. If you dislike this person then you must know his character and what he is capable of. Lets put the felon part aside, that is a dead horse cause no one there cares about that or the others that have  and still have legal and extreme moral issues that frequent and some may run parts of that club.

My issue is that this man is probably one of the worst I have known in the community(that is not in jail). His actions towards the community are abhorrent. In my past I have seen this mans behavior cause many to leave the community completely. He has built his kingdom(as it is) by collecting those in the St.Louis community that either can not go anywhere else because of their behavior or want to go where they can "hunt" feely for those that are naive and unprotected. This is the reason I have spoke up.

I know this man well, VERY well and I am tired of seeing the same thing play out over and over. Am I beating a dead horse, yes I am, will I stop, no I will not. Maybe those that are already there do not care and will turn a deaf ear to me. I believe that anyone new that might catch a piece of the seed I plant about this person will be leary, they will in fact try and find out the facts.

I would do this with any group he was involved in, I am not just picking on the people there, far from it. By the answers I have seen those that are there know about his past and his behavior. there is nothing I can say that might change anything, I am okay with that.

I hope you have a good weekend sir

David Wraith
David Wraith

So Robert,

Are you saying that any business started by a convicted felon is thereby illegal? If my barber has a felony conviction, am I getting illegal haircuts? Currently, there are two million people incarcerated in America's prisons. If everything they do is illegal, how are they to earn a living once they're released? 

Also, you say "You know I speak the truth or you would nothave answered and acknowledged what I say." Really? So, if we answer you, it means you’re right and if we ignore you, your opinion goes unchallenged? That’s called a logical fallacy. We learned about those in Philosophy 101 myfreshman year in college, it’s what a person uses when they don’t have a strong argument.

And before you accuse me of being one of Joe’s (SatansMaster’s) blind minions, please believe, I don’t even like the guy. Your argument is so asinine, that you’vecompelled me to defend someone I don’t care for, personally. The inability of adults to have an argument based on logic and reason is a bigger threat to this country than anything Joe is doing at his Facility.

Robert
Robert

He who lays down with dogs.......

IcanNOTbeOUT
IcanNOTbeOUT

Satansmaster, You prove my point, you are quick to dismiss anyone not agreeing with you. All I seen during your 15 min of fame was you being a total asshole and causing the exact turmoil you so readily blame others for. You have to continually  dismiss anyone that you can not control and this is why you always fail and only skin by in life. I know it must be hard being the only last surviving member of a make believe clan, but I know it will get better for the community when you are gone.

Irony
Irony

Irony. The sex offender you allowed into your venue was listed as having being put there for offenses with a 14 year old child. Why do you hide that fact and obfuscate it by going on and on about something else? /Irony.

Look up that word Joe. Obfuscate. 

SatansMaster
SatansMaster

 To Icannot beout,     sadly you were misinformed about the outing of who or what.I have not outed anyone or any group. Unfortunately, after several of us spoke to the media, I personally alerted other group leaders that the media and city officials were monitoring fet life and all web sites. It evidently fell on deaf ears. The events postings kept going up and a lot of people just typed to much about the stuff and web sites had too much info on them.    Again the one that first contacted the media (name with held again) gave the alderman and the local officials our web site and also fet life.     oh and see that clears up that old rumor about not being able to leave. Follow rules if you do not like rules and do not want to abide by laws. then please do not let the door hit your behind on the way out.    If ones do not like, the group leading  the group  or  the leaders or board feel the group works for them and should cater to their every whim , please do not let the door hit you in the behind on the way out.       

Animl_lovr
Animl_lovr

I would rather attend a venue that is legal than be at the mercy of whoever is in charge (or NOT in charge as the case may be) to look out for my safety and well being, as well as others attending.

And I know very well what honor is - and it saddens me to see how often it is touted, when it really has little or no meaning to those that profess it.

SatansMaster
SatansMaster

 really now Robert, evidently you are not on top pf the facts. Please by all means, gain a lil courage and come on down sometime when I am not thereor hell for that matter come to the next general meeting and see for yourself, that you need to catch up on all the great new changes with the Facility.     Your comment about  Me outing other groups and forcing people to come out. We have members that discretion is important to. That is all kept confidential. They have no worries of being outed. No government officials will be around to walk thru and see what we are doing, which has happened not too long ago last year at another function where a couple people did lose their jobs, because the event was being questioned.     So do you feel like you can be 100 percent honest here or if it would cause you harm in your rel world to know who you really are? I would understand that otherwise be brave and let us know who you really are. Robert, Who? I only know one Robert that may dislike Me and I know that one is not you.Unless of course you have mis taken Me for Master Lee which everyone knows that is not me, Except you of course from your earlier post.     Being legal opens areas up that people like you do not want to see open up for the community. Freedom to express your self as who and what you want to be or do. Without fear of reprisal from Government authorities. I never asked the media to knock on My door which some others asked them to. Names with held of course.When he asked to talk I said sure we have nothing to hide. people like you put us out there to the media, I do thank them for that.      Kinda funny as well, with the comment about bankrupting the group. $40.00 a month for free entry and a key and free events and functions and refreshments and snacks, you really think that pays all the bills? Now the 10 or 20 admission helps with that. Free tours and you can stay in the social area as long as you like free. No one is obligated to pay admission to any event, class or function that is a COTB sponsored function, or  has to work as a volunteer for admission, which actually makes them an employee, service in exchange for service. Thats is not truly considered volunteering.     Please again i ask you to meet Me for breakfast or lunch this weekend. So you can come up to speed.         

Robert
Robert

 Please see below the comment by IcanNOTbeOUT. This is what happened, people that could not be outed were, people were hurt and all joe could do was spout about how weak they were and how it was his mission to bring BDSM to the public and how he was going to force people to come out.I rest my case, the community was and is hurt by him and anything he has anything to do with. I am sorry if you can either see or refuse to see what he did.Good luck with your group and club.I am sorry you can not see what has been done. I am not the only one that disagreed with him, just ask the list of those no longer around him that he once called friend. Like I said this isn't the first time he has done this. I remember all too well.

IcanNOTbeOUT
IcanNOTbeOUT

 I disagree, SM has on a number of occasions done just that and has in fact hurt the community especially those of us that can not be outed. i myself work for a part of the government that would absolutely let me go. I have had to back away from any public things because of the publicity that he got.

There was no reason for it and he himself has stated that he outed other groups in the name of furthering the community. The community I am in can't be outed, I guess to him this makes us less of a community member cause we can't be out. He had no right to do that for anyone but himself.

bythegraceofgodgoi
bythegraceofgodgoi

If you read the previous posts, Robert was going after individuals who didn't go by their real names when posting here.  That is what Hank was referring to, his willingness to call out people for choosing to be anonymous but not having the courage to be so himself.  I wish to have anonymity in certain areas of my life, and respect others rights to anonymity. No one has claimed to have the patent of this lifestyle or be a spokesperson for the St. Louis community as a whole. 

IcanNOTbeOUT
IcanNOTbeOUT

 You see, not everyone wants to or can be out. It's great that you can, but I have heard and know or others from my days that were fired for their choices.

You arrogant SOB's think just cause you have nothing to lose by being out, we all can. This person has outed groups and caused more harm then anyone I know in my history. Shame on you for thinking for the entire community.

You do not speak for all of is, stick to your own trash. There is a reason many have fled from him, to bad you will have to learn the hard way.

Hank Louis
Hank Louis

 Robert, again brave words.  Joe gave his last name and yet you still talk big and have not given yours.

Robert
Robert

Animl_lovrSadly no, you won't, it's probably for the best though. I do love the names you used, to bad you and the rest are destroying what many of us have bleed for over the years. My community would not have stood for this. now all I have a good memories of the past and great memories of the honor we had. some day you may learn what that is.

Animl_lovr
Animl_lovr

Robert, thank goodness I will not run into you when I go to this club, and i'm planning to go soon.  Everyone I've talked to that has been has loved it and the people.

Is your last name Albatross??  Or maybe Condor/ 'Your' community, it seems to me from what I've experienced, needs a good dose of new and at least better ideas, not to mention different people - ones that can give up their posturing and back biting among other things.  I've seen enough to know what I'm talking about.  oh, and heaven forbid if you went legal you'd have to give up the booze!  Oh My Gawd!  No more drunks?  Geeezzz

Robert
Robert

 Yes stop in there, please do, I said, if you had read that I wish the club well. I hope a lot of people spend the money to join and you have a great time. What you don't care to read is that joe is a crook, time and time again he has proven that.

It's going to be sad when it happens I am sure. Maybe I will come up and invest in the building after he bankrupts you. I have a lot of time to watch and wait.

Again, Good luck to you Hank, I hope you all do well

Charles
Charles

Nope.  Don't care about his past.  I care about the man he is NOW. 

Hank Louis
Hank Louis

 Robert if that is your name, I hope you are still reading this but you probably have gone back underground with all the other haters.

I want you an anyone who is interested that our club has a board of directors' that oversee operations.  There is also a protocol committee and a safety (DM) committee.  On the weekends there are always members who are there because we care for one another and enjoy each others company and we welcome visitors and the just curious.   I would encourage you or anyone else to to stop buy for a tour. 

Please stop in and introduce yourself.

Hank LouisGroup LeaderThe Facility1440 North Broadway at CassSt. Louis MO 63101

hours Friday, 7pm to Sunday, 11am.

Robert
Robert

 LOL you said you did yes. You and I know better, good luck with that story. Me doth think you protest to much comes to mind. You have a lot to say still I see, been a while and I see you have not changed a bit. I have been keeping up, closer to the facts then you know.

Loose lips sink ships

Robert
Robert

 LOL see, there it is, how sad is this.

I am sorry that this book brings anyone to you joe and yes, I know you very well.

Good for the club, When they smarten up, they will see it for what it is. It's sad really, these new people come in and it's the only reason you are still here. The smart ones have seen you for what you are and have moved on, the new ones will see it to.

Your community is not my community, it's sad how you have warped things trying to make a buck. I wish this group and the other groups well, I go where I want to and have for many years.

Sad indeed, for anyone actually reading this, there are many places to go in the area and outside the area. I have been to many and they all have things to offer. For God sakes stay clear of anything with "Joe Kriegesmann" involved. the rest although being a follower isn't bad, I am sure they are good people.

Again, Great for the club, I wish it well. joe I would not pee on to save my life

SatansMaster
SatansMaster

 Robert ...so if your not hiding under your covers what is your last name as I can think of 20 Roberts that you could be?

Thank youJoe Kriegesmann

now that is being 100 percent honest

SatansMaster
SatansMaster

 My right hand man...be real and get caught up to date. Did you ever think to ask her personally. you know you pee and you get put on that list. Also you should keep in mind you can be put on that list if your in a illegal venue that gets popped?       Well now your reaching. So the message that the St Louis BDSM community and even the Fetish Community wants to send out and promote is being illegal is the right thing to do.        Lets look at that a bit closer.Being illegal..... no emergency services can be called without stopping everything and or emptying the venue      If a accident does happen even a slip and fall, no insurance by the illegal organization putting the function on     Possibility of being raided which violates the safe, sane and consensual that everyone should follow. As a uninformed decision was made to enter.    Possibility of burning up in a building that has no proper fire inspections  or exits.    Predators can roam about freely and are protected by others in that venue.    Playing drunk and causing injuries that makes everyone look bad.    By not having the legal documentation, a venue can be closed down and condemnedcosting members and or guests money and time  no taxes being paid  unregistered not for profits and following their charter laws set by the Fed. Gov.  not for profits registered in other states not registering or getting the proper waviers or documentation that has to be displayed by law.  Underage people going in and allowed to drink alcoholic beverages

So this is the message that the illegal aspects of the alleged respected venues and groups want to pro tray to the novices and new faces coming out into the communityAll I can think of to say is Shame on you for promoting The St Louis community in this light..       Being legal.

emergency services can enter freely and without interfering with the functionif an accident happens there is insurance to cover the liabilityNo worries about being condemned for failure to display the proper documentation and the documentation for what is legally allowed in the venueSafe sane and consensual is followed to the letter as one's entering know and have made an  informed decision to enter.Open 24 hoursno worries about raids,no worries about media coverage as nothing is hidden and its all been out thereno lies about what the venue is used for for example  banquet hall and alcohol only to be used for BDSM functions No drunks to worry aboutPredators are afraid to come to legal venues for fear of authorities being calledNo drugs for the same reason    The Legal list is quite lengthy with all the benefits

   

Irony
Irony

Irony. Your right hand man had a known sex offender that he was protecting and that frequented your legal venue even after you knew that she was listed as one. /Irony

thomas
thomas

 Robert pull your head out of your backside and open your eyes.. This club is LEGAL and attracting those that WANT to practice their lifestyle of BDSM in a place that is legal not some place like yours where they may at any time be arrested.. THIS club has NO fear of this ever happening.. YOU are jealous because you are TOO lazy to go get your venue legal.. As for Master Joe, this man is one of the finest men I have ever met REGARDLESS of his background..As for you, your hate for joe is grounded in the fact that Joe stod up to the city and got this club legal status SO shut your trap and move on hoping your  cluband the god folkd that attend yo

SatansMaster
SatansMaster

 notamused... the book has helped greatly at the facility, last 3 months as of last weekend 127 new faces to the community because they are not afraid of being arrested r caught in a video  when those places are raided. They know when they return they will be treated the same way and its there and no worries, like the other places.      The rest of the community will know how they screwed up by not going and getting the proper documents and protecting their guests with proper fire exits and lighting and fire escapes and overall building safety, even floors without holes in them.      I mean really where else can you go to a legal function walk in and see what is on the permits and license that says BDSM  on it.Absolutely no where and if that is not on it, it is illegal, or even for that matter a gathering of over 5 people means you should have a meeting hall license, a stage require s , and well anyways you got the picture.

FoxyBitch
FoxyBitch

 Robert,

Well My name is Jacquie, I live in hartville, I travel on a regular basis to get my happy ass up there to St Louis to attend functions at the facility. I have met the owner, his girl, and alot of the regulars. And honestly, I find them alot more polite, ethical and moral then anything you have had to say.

I am a lifestyle Switch, I build BDSM Supplies and furniture. My company has been around for more then 10 years, and in that time I have met alot of people, just like any community there are good ones and bad ones... I haven't met a single one at the facility that I have so much as had a minor disagreement with!

FoxyLeathersSupplies Happily supports the Facility, it's owners and all its members and if you have an issue with that... feel free to come on down here and have a chat.

Jacquelyn Burch~Owner and CEO of FoxyLeathersSupplies~

BRING IT!

SatansMaster
SatansMaster

 Robert,  everyone knows My past, even those that you talk about way before you entered into this lifestyle, actually before most of the current illegal venues even thought about what BDSM was. Did You ever wonder why we went legal?     Ask some of your friends about that and about outing and about going to the special use hearing.  Yeah I actually know those two people. Sadly, even then I have and will not say there names to anyone. And you know , Robert stay up to date with your numbers there bud your way out of date.     Also catch up on the times dude and quit hiding under your bed. The board is in charge of the group now, with succeeding in being the first and ONLY legal venue In St Louis. i stepped down from Leading the group. Research and know what your speaking of before you assume things.    Hope to see you soon.Joe

SatansMaster
SatansMaster

 Robert , please any time you feel like having lunch or coffee or just meeting, lets get together and you can hear all about My past. One thing is I have never hid that from anyone ever. I am honest and open with everyone I meet and do not hide who or what I am I am usually there every weekend during the days as well as the nights stop by and I'll even by you lunch or breakfast at the Famous Shady jacks Saloon

SatansMaster
SatansMaster

 Robert, I can name felons all over this City owning business's. I can also say that i do not have any sex offenses, like some of the other venues or groups have in their folds.            

Notamused
Notamused

Robert:

 Although you are right, why give them any more publicity then they have from being that way already. The book has nothing to do with them or their so called legal place. Let them go to hell their own way and when thy are all wondering what when wrong the rest of the community will already know.

Robert
Robert

I figured you would say go away, that is usually the defense of someone that knows they are wrong.

It's not my outing, you see I am using my real name, you are not, but it's the few "newer members of the community" as you put it that do not know what they are walking into.

 

Robert
Robert

No, Thank you for actually saying you and the rest do not care about your leaderships past. It goes a long way to telling the rest of the community why this is like it is.

bound by ropes
bound by ropes

Robert, were you directly effected in anyway by anything that you claim this person has done??

What I have found is there are few people that were actually effected, but many that will tell a story they have heard through the grapevine. 

If you are concerned about being "outed", then maybe you shouldn't go to any event and stay in your own basement or bedroom.  If you are that concerned, then don't participate in any way shap or form.  But stop pointing fingers and casting shadows on what is ultimately an accomplishment in the community and something that should be celebrated.

Btw...if you have a concern about the past of someone running the club...then open your own club.  I'm sure there is room for competition in St. Louis. 

bound by ropes
bound by ropes

Whether or not the person or people running the group are felons or not is irrelevant. Everyone has a past and has made mistakes. I am sure you have too. Why must this be an issue? I know this man and would consider him a friend. Do you know him? I've seen his good side. Have you? And yes, the club is legal in the aspect that no one there need fear being arrested for doing something illegal. When i joined the community i was not made aware that at certain events the things i were doing could be perceived in the eyes of the law as illegal. What is important is not the past of the person running the club, but instead that there are places the newer members of the community can go to learn and play safely. ROBERT, if that is not your concern then don't go to that club.

This is a prime example of what i meant in regards to the turmoil. Thank You, Robert, for being that example.

Robert
Robert

I can agree with  real "legal" place, what I can not agree on is that this felon is  in charge and this felon believes everyone must be out total and utter nonsense. The 20 or so people that still follow blindly will get a rude awakening just like everyone else has when this felon either splits with the cash.. again.. or self destructs. From what I can gather, the rest of the community could care less about him, his "legal" club and his blind followers. The bulk of the community doesn't care to have this pushed in their faces all the time.

I also love the way you acknowledge he is a felon. I could not defend this person either, club or no club, he tainted it and it will always be tainted. You know I speak the truth or you would not have answered and acknowledged what I say

Tired of it all
Tired of it all

 Felon or not the place is open and legal and no one has to hide.

Robert
Robert

 I also love how you hide behind that name, mine is Robert. LOL what a joke you are

Robert
Robert

yes, you are right. So you are saying a felon does not run this "legal" group? 

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