Smoking Ban in St. Louis County: What Kinds of Businesses Should Be Exempt?

Raise the food limit to 49 percent
Right now, businesses in which food sales are less than 25 percent of total sales are allowed to permit smoking, but some argue that this is very arbitrary and unfairly excludes businesses in which food is still a small portion of revenue. David Kuneman with the Citizens' Freedom Alliance -- who sent us a helpful breakdown -- says that bars that have food sales up to 49 percent likely still rely largely on alcohol sales.

Thumbnail image for Carol Fallert Brew House.jpg
Courtesy of Carol Fallert
Carol Fallert, owner of The Brew House in Maryland Heights, opposes a stricter ban.

Hardship waivers
If the owner can prove, through business tax returns, that revenue fell more than 15 percent as a result of a smoking ban, then they should be given an exemption.

We spoke last week with one small business that predicted a serious drop in sales if a ban were imposed.

Allow e-cigarettes anywhere

e-cigarette image.jpeg
via
e-cigarette
This is a simple policy change that would require eliminating e-cigarettes, or electronic cigarettes, from the county's definition of "smoking," thus allowing these in any establishment.

Continue for more of smoking ban proposals.

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31 comments
Jay McNamara
Jay McNamara

@James Wright, You my friend are the one who needs to get off your high horse. If you don't want to be exposed to smoke, choose a non smoking establishment. What's so hard about that? There are plenty of places for you to go. How can you justify demonizing and inconveniencing an entire subset of people for your own personal comfort? This decision should be completely left to the business owner.

Dan Kelemen
Dan Kelemen

Smokers need to get over it. Non smokers do not want to go home and smell like smoke. I go to bars and see the same amout of people in the place as before. Smokers can go outside and smoke anyways why ruin a good meal so others can smoke.

James Wright
James Wright

STL needs to get off its high horse!!!! it is disgusting and unhealthy. AMAZING that citys like, NEW YORK can get over it, but little ole st. louis is to stupid to see how much better it is for everyone. Go ahead and stay home and hot box your house.

Jay McNamara
Jay McNamara

I don't smoke, and I don't need the government to make every business smoke-free just so I don't have to be exposed to it. I'm not that arrogant.

Bry On
Bry On

Don't drink. Don't smoke. Don't care.

Greg Huels
Greg Huels

This really should be up to the business owner. If I wanted to start a smoking bar, I should be allowed to do that, and customers have the choice to visit non-smoking bars if that's what they prefer

Kenneth Lee M
Kenneth Lee M

given that 4 out of 5 people don't smoke the statistics tend to disprove your statements, Brad. For the loss of business from smokers ... there is a greater increase of non-smokers. Smokers bring this upon themselves by not minding others around them. I think the real answer lies in surplus Astronaut suits ... require smokers to wear one and breath in their own recycled air ... or possibly have them exhale into exhaust hoses. I think it would be fair if only they devise a way for only the smokers to inhale their 2nd hand smoke. Now, someone is going to ask "how does this impact you" well I've never smoked and yet I'm not even 40 and sufferring from heart disease ... so yeah what you smoke, harms me.

Ryan Stufft
Ryan Stufft

None. Sorry smokers-take it outside please.

Barry Bean
Barry Bean

I generally avoid smoky bars, but I have no problem with smokers having a place to smoke and enjoy themselves. Status quo is fine.

Douglas Dial
Douglas Dial

businesses that allows smoking won't get my business. amazing that in 2013 people still ignore how bad smoking is for the body and wallet. healthcare costs would drop for everyone if smokers chose to quit.

Rick Kohn
Rick Kohn

All of them, provided they have a seperate smoking area.

David B Fowler
David B Fowler

Business decision. Do gooders go to an establishment that doesn't have smoking or stay home.

Bryan Berger
Bryan Berger

None. Please stay the fuck home & smoke away. The rest of us dont go out of or way to dress nice & smell good to wreak like the cousin of death cause youve got a habit.

Brad Woods
Brad Woods

All these bans on smoking have only hurt business as most of us decide to stay home and smoke.

Brad Woods
Brad Woods

Bars and Casinos. That's a given!

harleyrider1777
harleyrider1777

looky what I found just moments ago:

The Vetting – Holder 1995: We Must ‘Brainwash’ People on Guns like we did on cigarettes

Breitbart.com has uncovered video from 1995 of then-U.S. Attorney Eric Holder announcing a public campaign to “really brainwash people into thinking about guns in a vastly different way.”
Holder was addressing the Woman’s National Democratic Club. In his remarks, broadcast by CSPAN 2, he explained that he intended to use anti-smoking campaigns as his model to “change the hearts and minds of people in Washington, DC” about guns.
http://www.breitbart.com/Breitbart-TV/2012/03/18/Holder-Outlines-How-To-Change-Public-Opinion-On-Guns

MrRational
MrRational

No exemptions. Level the playing field. The health of the employees is at risk.

If the restrictions are too onerous, may I suggest that you wise up and quit smokimg? I did.

And don't pay any attention to that Hannegan guy. He's just background noise, looking for attention.

anono2
anono2

I am perplexed why anyone would want a small tax paying adult only business, that they have a choice to not enter, would wish to see that business harmed. The 21 year old cut off seems very rational and workable to me. It seems the "clean air anti business lobbyists" are not interested in anything but closing small neighborhood bars. Seems they are not only anti smokers, they are anti drinkers also. They do not want to allow people to choose because it would be hard to explain why these little businesses are still open.

chad_garrison
chad_garrison moderator editor

With the exception of the proposal to increase food sales to 49 percent, it seems to me that all of these ideas would loosen restrictions for bar owners. I find it hard to believe the council would take them seriously. Its goal is to eliminate exemptions that continue to allow smoking, not retry the 2009 law that voters approved.

torij
torij

@Dan Kelemen I agree completely. People go out to have a good time, and being around smoke and having that strong smell can make your time not as fun. I get that people smoke, but others who don't shouldn't have to be around it. Everyone has a choice to do what they want to do, but why do you need to smoke while you're eating? That doesn't seem like a very good combination.

montellclary
montellclary

@Douglas Dial wrong! that would be the opposite

harleyrider1777
harleyrider1777

@MrRational %s

Lungs from pack-a-day smokers safe for transplant, study finds.

By JoNel Aleccia, Staff Writer, NBC News.

Using lung transplants from heavy smokers may sound like a cruel joke, but a new study finds that organs taken from people who puffed a pack a day for more than 20 years are likely safe.

What’s more, the analysis of lung transplant data from the U.S. between 2005 and 2011 confirms what transplant experts say they already know: For some patients on a crowded organ waiting list, lungs from smokers are better than none.

“I think people are grateful just to have a shot at getting lungs,” said Dr. Sharven Taghavi, a cardiovascular surgical resident at Temple University Hospital in Philadelphia, who led the new study...........................

Ive done the math here and this is how it works out with second ahnd smoke and people inhaling it!

The 16 cities study conducted by the U.S. DEPT OF ENERGY and later by Oakridge National laboratories discovered:

Cigarette smoke, bartenders annual exposure to smoke rises, at most, to the equivalent of 6 cigarettes/year.

146,000 CIGARETTES SMOKED IN 20 YEARS AT 1 PACK A DAY.

A bartender would have to work in second hand smoke for 2433 years to get an equivalent dose.

Then the average non-smoker in a ventilated restaurant for an hour would have to go back and forth each day for 119,000 years to get an equivalent 20 years of smoking a pack a day! Pretty well impossible ehh! OSHA ON SECOND HAND SMOKE.................Field studies of environmental tobacco smoke indicate that under normal conditions, the components in tobacco smoke are diluted below existing Permissible Exposure Levels (PELS.) as referenced in the Air Contaminant Standard (29 CFR 1910.1000)...It would be very rare to find a workplace with so much smoking that any individual PEL would be exceeded." -Letter From Greg Watchman, Acting Sec'y, OSHA

hanneganlounge
hanneganlounge

@chad_garrison, it is pretty clear Councilman O'Mara is not going to ban smoking in the little strip mall bars or the casino gaming floor. 

hanneganlounge
hanneganlounge

@chad_garrison , but voters approved the exemptions too. O'Mara wants to come up with an exemption scheme that is more fair. The 'over 21' rule is totally fair.

MrRational
MrRational

@harleyrider1777 

You are rationalizing yourself to death.

I wish my Dad was still alive to talk to you. He sure regretted smoking, and working in an office filled with smokers, when he spent 5 years on oxygen and died way too young. His doctors agreed that the second-hand smoke was the main culprit...he never got a breath of clean air all day long and it killed him.

Please stop this silly farce and admit that smoking is bad for you and everyone else. Quit, and your life will improve. I promise.  

harleyrider1777
harleyrider1777

@MrRational@harleyrider1777 

PROVE IT! And please provide the doc that said second hand smoke caused anything because your a LIAR!

 Smoking as good for asthmatics–2 studies:

Treatment of Asthma by Nicotinic Acid – 1943 50-100 mg by shot or intravenous; aborted attacks, led to fewer and less frequent attacks in half the subjects.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2282923/

This 2008 paper concludes that nictotine and therefore active and passive smoking leads to less asthma and explains the biologial process by which it does;

“Nicotine Primarily Suppresses Lung Th2 but not goblet cell or muscle cell responses to allergens.”
Mishra et al, Lovelace Respiratory Research Inst, Alburquerque,
Journal of Immunology, 2008; 180
http://www.jimmunol.org/cgi/content/abstract/180/11/7655

From the study: “Nicotine is an anti-inflammatory, but the association between smoking and asthma is highly contentious and some report that smoking cessation increases the risk of asthma in ex-smokers….

“The results unequivocally show that, even after multiple allergen sensitizations, nicotine dramatically suppresses inflammatory/allergic parameters in the lung …[Additionally] it significantly decreased mucus content in bronchoalveolar lavage,These results suggest that nicotine modulates allergy/asthma primarily by suppressing eosinophil trafficking and suppressing Th2 cytokine/chemokine responses without reducing goblet cell metaplasia or mucous production and may explain the lower risk of allergic diseases in smokers. To our knowledge this is the first direct evidence that nicotine modulates allergic responses.”


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